TANKS

COOLANT EXPANSION VERSUS RECOVERY TANKS
by Lorne Goldman

Automobile engine coolant systems provide a practical example of a liquid-thermal expansion problem. If the radiator is filled with coolant when the engine is cold, it will overflow when the engine heats during operation as hot coolant takes up more space than cold coolant. In older Morgans, the excess fluid produced by the hot temperatures was released onto the ground and frequent checking of the coolant level and periodic replacement is needed to avoid overheating on these cars. Many of these owners have wisely retro-fit overflow tanks. These can have one of two functioning systems.

Cooling systems have a container (tank) that either;

1. collects the released fluid that occurs with thermal expansion in the pressurized system and sends it to the overflow tank/ It returns it to the radiator as the engine and the coolant cools (the latter shrinking) anf thereby creates a vacuum which sucks the fluid back in through a valve in the radiator cap (aka a RECOVERY TANK). WITH THIS SYSTEM, THE PRESSURE CAP IS FIT TO THE RADIATOR.

2. THE PRESSURE CAP IS FIT TO THE OVEFLOW TANK, thus pressurizing with the entire system, and the expanded coolant is sent to the overflow when the extra space is needed. (aka an EXPANSION TANK)

These designs both improve coolant systems and reduce the number of times the coolant fluid level must be checked (and avoids the expense of replacing costly antifreeze material mixed with the radiator fluid).

WATCHPOINT: The biggest panic is at the start. People don't fill their cooling systems when their engines are hot, they fill them when their engines are cold..to the top. Then they start'em up, heat to running temp (a jump of 80C or so) and the unneeded cooollant expands beyond the capacity of the overflow tanks and makes puddles on the ground for a few days. It is unsettling and embarrassing but harmless. In fact, it is the best way to find what level of coolant is normal for your recovery tank when the coolant is cold.

How to install an overflow tank

An overflow tank is installed by finding a place to bolt or screw it to the inner fender of the car. The radiator overflow vent hose is then routed to the overflow tank and inserted into it. You will still need to keep an eye on the coolant level in the radiator and keep it topped up to ½” to 1” below the bottom of the filler neck.

How to install an expansion tank

The expansion tank is installed exactly as the overflow tank is, but should be located about the level of the radiator header tank. The radiator pressure cap is replaced with a blanking cap and the expansion tank should have the proper pressure cap for your system used on it. The overflow line from the radiator filler neck is routed to the expansion tank. Hose clamps need to be used on this line, as it now becomes a pressure carrying line rather than an overflow line. The overflow line is the one on the filler neck of the expansion tank and it has a hose attached to it that vents to the atmosphere just as the conventional radiator overflow hose does. The radiator is filled to the bottom of the filler neck and the expansion tank is filled about one half full. The use of this system will add about one pint of coolant to the system, not normally an significant amount. After 200,000 Morgan miles of experience, I tend to favor an expansion tank. See below. This is because:

1. If I have to address something to do with the radiator, I do not want to wait an extra 30 minutes waiting until it is safe to open a pressure cap on the radiator.

2. An expansion system effectively gives you more coolant capacity.

3. I place the "total seal cap" on the radiator and the pressure cap on the expension (aka overflow) tank. If you cannot find a sea; cap, you can merely use a generic cap which has a much higher opening pressure point. Moroso makes many.

Expansion Tank Dynamics
Tribune News Service '
Jim S.A: Your daughter’s car is equipped with a radiator expansion tank. Older domestic vehicles typically came equipped with a top or side tank radiator utilizing a pressure relief cap.

As engine coolant heats up it expands, causing a buildup of pressure. Operating at up to 15 psi is a good thing as this raises the boiling point of water by about 3-degrees Fahrenheit per pound of pressure (257 vs. 212 degrees Fahrenheit). A 50/50 mix of coolant and water raises this even further to about 265 degrees Fahrenheit.

With the typical operating temperature range of most vehicles being about 195 to 230 degrees Fahrenheit, (Morgan Land Rover/Rover EFI Plus 8s operate at least 6C higher than the earlier carb'ed versions). This insures the pressurized coolant remains a liquid and does the best job of transferring engine heat to the radiator. Adding an overflow container to capture spillage and a combination pressure/vacuum cap was a good idea, as any lost coolant is contained and can be drawn back into the radiator as the system cools down, (Just as the coolant expands as it heats, it contracts as it gets cold, creating a vacuum which the system, through the vacuum valve in the cap, draws the expelled coolant back into the radiator. These systems typically have a simple radiator shut off cap and the overflow tube extends near the bottom of the pressured capped container for draw-back. During normal operation, the coolant level in the expansion tank varies between the cold and hot lines. If the coolant level in the container is maintained and the tube and cap do their job, one might assume the radiator is full! Should even a small leak occur, cool-down vacuum may not be sufficient to draw fluid back to keep the radiator full.Your daughter’s car uses a much sturdier pressurized expansion tank with a pressure relief cap instead a simple, less efficient, overflow container. The expansion tank is located higher than the radiator and functionally becomes the top of the radiator, and between the liquid held in the connecting hose and the expansion tank, adds to total fluid capacity AND plenty of room for coolant expansion.

The method also allows for a lower hood line, as the radiator can be a bit shorter in stature and does not need to have it’s own bulky pressure cap. Another advantage is that by keeping the radiator completely full of fluid, fewer air bubbles occur, which improves heat transfer. An expansion tank also has cold and hot fluid lines that should be periodically checked, and one can observe true radiator fluid level without removing the pressure cap (advantage Luddite).

Cooling a big Plus 8
by Lorne Goldman on eMog

I think of a recovery or expansion tank (muchly different things) as a way of lessening the burden on the owner in checking coolant levels constantly (lest he run out) and/or preparing the car for a wider range of encountered temperatures. In our case, ambient temps vary widely in a single trip. -10C to +40C (50C) is not unusual. Engine temperature are also a function of bhp. The more you have the more heat your engine will produce under load. It is one of the penalties it pays for being puissant. I have Plus 8s (a 4.6 and a 4.8 on fast road cams and enhanced air and fuel flow) After many years of trying I have found the happiest happy recipe for all-weather cooling.

1. A bigger more efficient rad After years of testing a Griffin, a deep core RDR and two Mufab rads I can speak with some experience. I have found that the best of all of these options is the Mulfab thin core rad. I was not enthralled with those with a deeper core and many more fins. They make it harder for the airflow to pass through and too much gets deflected over and around the radiator. The newest Mulberry rads are ideal. Longer and thinner. That means a bigger rad without prejudicing airflow and leaving plenty of room for a BIG FAN.

2. A Big fan. Something that pulls a LOT of air. I use a SPAL. So does the Factory. They pull an immense amount of air for their diameter, a must in a Morgan. Take care in the installation, the right SPAL can pull as much as 20+ amps and will require an MUCHLY UPGRADED 30 amp inline fuse, a relay and an alternate power connection (as the Morgan wiring is not rated that high, the wires can burn. Install separate wiring for the power and take the current from the alternator to the power side of the relay).

WATCHPOINTS: Fuse & Relay When they first switched to SPAL, the MMC simply changed the fan fuse (at the fuse box) to 30 amps. However, the wiring to the fan was not upgraded to support this much amperage and the wire would melt. This, of course, made the fan non-functioning and that caused some serious sadness to owners (and their engines). They did upgrade the wiring but they kept using regular 30 amp relays. With these, sooner or late, the relay will fail and the fan will stop functioning or function continually. The best solution is to use the SPAL wiring kit, the one they insist on using if you have any of their performance fans. The part number for the entire kit (which includes items you do not need) is # FRH-HO-K. Or call them up and get a price on the relay and its wiring alone...

I take the main current for the fan with 30amp+ wire off the back of the nearby alternator. gmg

3. Big expansion tank, 1.5 liters. (I like an expansion system better than a recovery system. They are less complicated, put a bit more fluid in the system and easier to safely open up when the engine is hot. I have a Mulberry expansion tank on one car and a JEGS on the other. I do not shirk on size. They are both large (1 to 1.5 liters) The Mulberry is canted at the bottom so that it sits vertically on the Morgan bulkhead.

4. I use a 15-16 psi rad cap on the expansion tank.

These combos gets us through absolutely anything without a problem.

WATCHPOINT: Speaking of big Plus 8s, the biggest stock engine of the Plus 8 era was the 4.6 However, it was not the most powerful! The reason for this, in the UK, is that Morgan fit with a Hotwire fuelling system and a 3.9 fuel map. So, though the longer stroke of the 4.6 creates more torque, the increase in bhp is negligible. The result of the extra capacity and the same fueling as the smaller engine means this engine OVERHEATS without compensation in any way. It requires a better fuel map (which releases more power and better mileage and lowers the temperatures!)

Notes for a Triumph Plus 4

by Gerry Willburn

For starters, the earlier Plus 4s had a 4-6 pound cap, not 15.

Secondly, if you look at the radiator, there is quite a large air space above the highest level that you can fill through the filler. This is the problem.

As the car gets warm, the air and expands and forces water and air out of the overflow. When the car cools, AIR is sucked back into the radiator. This creates a positive feedback effect and after a few cycles, there is not enough water left in the radiator to cool the engine. Overheating.

There are two cures for this.

1. Check the water lever EVERY time the car is used (and watch your car pee on the pavement when you stop).

2. Fit a catch bottle.

When a catch bottle is used, the standard pressure cap remains on the radiator and a non-pressure cap (or no cap is used on the catch bottle). Now when the engine gets warm and belches air and water into the catch tank. When the car cools, WATER is sucked back into the engine. After a few cycles of this, nearly all of the air above the filler has been expelled and the radiator is FULL of water and only water flows back and forth between the radiator and the catch tank. No overheating. You just add water to the catch tank from time to time and NEVER take the cap off of the radiator. It you take the cap off of the radiator, the water filling the space above the filler will drain out the overflow into the catch tank and you must start the cycle over again. A catch bottle can be mounted anywhere. We mounted ours on the Valence Panel.

Expansion tanks are a different thing. They are used on a sealed system and the pressure cap is on the expansion tank. In fact, on most modern cars, there is no pressure cap on the radiator itself. The expansion tank is mounted at the highest point in the system so that air in the system will migrate up to it.